Curse

Sarasvati · Feb 03, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Hey guys. I have a few rambling questions for you all, as I look into getting started in Guild Wars - possibly Factions if I decide on playing a Ritualist.

1) The class that "theoretically" appeals to me the most is the Ritualist. I like minions, but I think that immobile spirits are more unique in terms of gameplay than minions which follow you around. The only time I've played anything which seems to be similar would be the Forester class in DAOC. They summoned "turrets" of sorts and more or less made an area around them fortified, which they could pull mobs into. Is that fairly accurate as to how Ritualists play? Summoning immobile spirits dpending on the situation, which sit there and attack, or heal, or charge up to explode, and other stuff?

2) How do Ritualists work in PvP? From what I've gathered, arenas seem big. How do immobile spirits work in a setting where people can simply run around your area? Do you fortify important areas with spirits, like flags and such? Are Ritualists seen as viable or even dangerous in PvP?

3) I keep getting mixed input on how easy it is to find groups in GW as a Ritualist. Some say they're one of the hardest to find groups with, and some say they are easy to get groups with. Which is true?

Terra Xin · Feb 03, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarasvati

Summoning immobile spirits dpending on the situation, which sit there and attack, or heal, or charge up to explode, and other stuff?

1:yup. There is an entire attribute line which is Communing. This specialises in offensive spirits that attack foes that come into their area, and depending on what type of spirit you summon, can affect foes in different ways (one can blind, one can knock a target over etc). In that same line, you also have spirits that reduce the amount of damage that you take also.

In Restoration magic, all of the spirits are defensive, and deal wtih healing the party so long as you are within the range of that spirit's effectiveness.

In Channeling Magic, the only spirit that blows up after a duration is destruction. When placed properly, it can deal alot of damage.

2: Ritualists are very common in low level PvP areas like Random Arenas, Team Arenas and Hero Battles. they aren't as common in Heroes' Ascent, and are usually played with a full team of ritualists, or they are played as a spirit spammer to fuel a Necromancers' energy.

3: In terms of them getting into groups. Its easy. The difficulty when getting groups however is that you will almost always be asked to play as a healer. Alot of players are rather ignorant in terms of the potential that the Ritualist can deal in damage, so that is very often overlooked.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 04, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

My favourite 2 classes are mesmer and ritualist. They are both very fun in PVE because you can change your playstyle to just about anything you ever wanted.
My mesmer has been a fast casting everything. Even a FC primary healer in a mission or two!
My ritualist has been a healer, nuker, warrior, spirit spammer, ect. ect.
Both fun in PVE if you just like experimenting with playstyles and changing roles because you are shizo.

Sarasvati · Feb 04, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

I'm currently patching Factions, as my Ritualist - Sarasvati Devananda. Yeah, I know, it is a mouthful.

In any case, I'm wondering what build I should try out first to get me familiar with PvE as I am leveling up (quickly, from what I hear) in Factions. I like Necromancy almost as much as the ritualist spirit-summoning stuff, so should I go "Minion Bomber" as is listed on this forum?

I also like disabling and hampering targets, and being a general pain in the arse support-class.. maybe I should try a Ritualist/Mesmer?

I really don't know. Any advice would be appreciated here.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 04, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Necromancer is a good secondary.
You can use the healing ritualist spells that sacrifice life to trigger Dark Aura (non-aggro creatures will get hurt, but still won't attack you!).
You can use weapon spells on minions.
You can use several spawning skills on minions too.
Overall it's a very good combo.

Ranger is also a good secondary, but probably not as fun as necromancer, unless you have Nightfall, because there are several skills that make the Rt/R combo fun in NF (like Spirit's Strength).

Dodo The Extinct · Feb 04, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I`d suggest having Necromancer as your secondary. The Ritualist MM, is a fairly powerful build, that is good a diverting damage, and causing it at the same time. Plus, it can help you get into groups.

I don`t think many people would suggest going Rt/Me anymore, since the VwK nerf. Being Rt/Me in PvE is pretty bad, considering that your secondary doesn`t really have many skill synergies with your class.

PvP-wise, Ritualists are very uncommon. You should`nt go through PvE with a tricky secondary and expect to be rewarded with PvP involvement when you finish.

Sarasvati · Feb 04, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

PvP-wise, Ritualists are very uncommon. You should`nt go through PvE with a tricky secondary and expect to be rewarded with PvP involvement when you finish.

Could you clarify this a bit for me? I'm not sure what you mean - I thought that the professions were fairly well balanced.. and I thought that if you wanted to engage in PvP, that you didn't have to be "rewarded" with it, or given permission to engage in it, per se.

Sort of confused.

Also, if I go forward with this Rit/Necro bomber build - how should I approach the early levels? Right now I more or less summon Union and Pain, throw Painful Bond on a tough monster, and cast either life-drains or nukes like the Spirit Void or Swarm to bring monsters down.

Currently using awarrior and healer as henchmen.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 04, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

I think Dodo meant PVPing with your PVE character later on.
As for rits in PVP, in RA you'll see quite a few. Every once in a while you'll see one in HA or TA and in GvG I believe they are somewhat rare.
PVP with a minion bomber build is hard because you won't have the resources until people start dropping. Maybe that's what he meant, if you were thinking of PVPing with your PVE character later on.

Bargamer · Feb 05, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Did I hear that someone wanted to make a new Minion Bomber? Well, today is your lucky day! Read the following guide that I wrote, and you should be fine for the rest of the game. Some other things you should know: Until you get your first Animate, you're pretty much going to be playing like a Spirit Spammer. Stay back, and let your party do all the work. Later parts of the game, look up Rit/Monk builds for areas that are scarce on corpses, or have heavy interrupts, like Tannaki Temple or Arborstone. If you need help, feel free to poke Soy Oil in-game. (PS: Most people agree that for learning how to play the game, the Core chapter, Prophesies, is the easiest.)

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3039479

Sarasvati · Feb 05, 2007, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Yeah, I only have Factions. I have a good grasp on how to play, so to speak - but it will just take a bit of getting used to the mechanics. I rolled on ritualist, then re-rolled as a male character, and am going through it again - after a Necro to 7, and a Mesmer to 6, etc. So I am ready to really "push ahead" with my Ritualist.

The only thing I don't know how to do is PLAY as a spirit spammer. Do I just throw pain and union spirits down, buff myself and then cast Painful Bond on targets to pull them?

Calen The Civl · Feb 05, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I will copy and paste a spirit placement suggestion of mine from another thread. Spirit placement could almost be a science.

"The key to spirits is placement. Learn to read your team and terrain to set up the most effective spirit placement. This takes practice but remember that spirits have roughly the same range as a longbow or a flatbow. It may prove to be helpful to practice visualizing range and using a longbow on a target to help you grow used to range placement.

Generally, keep your spirits in the backline and wand the target to help direct their attack a little better. Spirits die quickly when attacked so spreading them apart to avoid AoE is advisable."

Original Thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10114173

Now, there are different ways to lay the spirits depending on how your team cooperates. Be sure to keep attacking spirits on high ground when possible; it seems to slightly increase their range. Straight line placement is fine but are vulnerable to AoE attacks. Triad placement (where the enemy is lured into a spirit triangle) helps confuse the ai of the victim.

The worst way to position spirits is to "stack" them on top of each other in the same position. This may be done with union and similar spirits far from the backline, but there really is no reason not to just tap a movement key a few times and place another spirit.

There are plenty of threads explaining skill sets but few talk about how to place spirits for effectiveness.

Dodo The Extinct · Feb 06, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Could you clarify this a bit for me? I'm not sure what you mean - I thought that the professions were fairly well balanced.. and I thought that if you wanted to engage in PvP, that you didn't have to be "rewarded" with it, or given permission to engage in it, per se.

Sorry for the confusion

hmmm, I`ll use an example.

Jimmy wants to play a Ritualist, and he is very excited about using his PvE Ritualist in a PvP arena. However, Jimmy doesn`t know what kind of secondary that he should give his Ritualist. His PvE friends say Rt/N is a good choice, but Jimmy doesn`t see Rt/Ns in gvg! Jimmy only sees Rt/E in gvgs. Jimmy wants to go Rt/E so he can gvg with his char!

This is a really bad desicion, because Ritualists are barely ever used in gvg, and because Rt/E basically sucks in PvE when compared to the other professions. My point, is that you should just pick a secondary that excells at PvE, and not one that excells in PvP.

Hopefully that helped....I wish I was better at explaining

Servant of Kali · Feb 06, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

First of all - nice nickname

Now,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarasvati

Is that fairly accurate as to how Ritualists play? Summoning immobile spirits dpending on the situation, which sit there and attack, or heal, or charge up to explode, and other stuff?

No, it's not accurate. For the most part, Communing is Ranger attribute line. Not Ritualist one. That's how things are atm. If you like spamming those spirits etc, just make Ranger, go R/Rt, and exploit overpowere expertise attribute. You will do MUCH better than as a Ritualist primary, using those skills. Im talking about damage spirits of course. If you just want to have one, then sure, you can be primary Rt.

Quote:

How do Ritualists work in PvP?

They are excellent in PvP.

Also, good thing is that most people think they aint good in PvP, which is something you can use as an advantage. As long as you dont copy the builds of others, you will do great (well, of course, depending on how well you learned Rt hehe).

Oh, and when i say they are excellent in PvP, that includes GvG too.

Quote:

I keep getting mixed input on how easy it is to find groups in GW as a Ritualist. Some say they're one of the hardest to find groups with, and some say they are easy to get groups with. Which is true?

Fairly easy. Noobs will not take you in a group as they think Rt's aint as good as <insert whatever>, but Rt is absolutey great in PvE, and blatantly overpowered in some areas. The problem is that whammos dont play Rt's, Rt's are too advanced for a whammo, just as a mesmer is. Still, it's not difficult to find a group, but sometimes be prepared to be a healer (which i find fun as well), because group might need it and there's no monk around.

Overall, Ritualists have insane versatility, one of the best, if not the best. You can be healer, channeler (elemental dmg), dmg spirits (not as good as if u were R/Rt..), defensive spirits (nerfed, but still overpowered in some game areas IMO), MM bomber, melee (Spirit Strenght daggers) and any hybrid of each (Rt's also excel at hybrids, since their primary sucks, but it also isnt needed in most cases).

Quote:

I'm wondering what build I should try out first to get me familiar with PvE as I am leveling up

Levelling up is just a process of getting to know profession skills. In low lvl areas, i'd say channeling will do nicer dmg than communing, while communing does better dmg in high-end areas (since it's armor ignoring).

As a general rule of thumb, try to avoid "builds" and always see what fits your playstyle. Quite often this means taking someone elses build and partially (or even completely with time) modify it to suit your needs and playstyle, while maintaining the effectiveness (or increasing it). ¸

Quote:

I also like disabling and hampering targets, and being a general pain in the arse support-class.. maybe I should try a Ritualist/Mesmer?

No. Mesmer doesnt really have anything to add to your arsenal. Or, in other words, mesmer will do better what you would do with mesmer skills, since he can use higher attributes than 12 (by adding runes).

Instead, you should work on studying Rt skills and discovering Rt arsenal. Disabling and hampering can does be done in various ways:
1) spirits such as Shadowsong or Dissonance (again, R/Rt is better at this)
2) using weapons such as Warmongers Weapon
3) reducing their dmg output or healing (restoration line)
4) other

In 99% cases, you will use only Ritualist skills. Yes, you absolutely dunnot need secondary profession, especially in PvE. Sometimes, as in GvG, it will be useful that you take a skill from another class, because of a synergy effect with your team build. But that is a specific situation, not a rule.

Think as a Ritualist. Be a better Ritualist, not better mesmer than mesmer itself.

Quote:

The only thing I don't know how to do is PLAY as a spirit spammer. Do I just throw pain and union spirits down, buff myself and then cast Painful Bond on targets to pull them?

If you're using defensive spirits such as Displacement Shelter and Union, you need a very specific build which focuses on it. Adding randomly these spirits to some other build will greatly lower the efficiency. Ritualist Lord, Displacement, Shelter, Union (union always casted after shelter), Signet of Creation, Pain, Boon of Creation.... this is approximatelly how defensive spirit spammer would look like in PvE (none in PvP atm, it got nerfed, but it still works in some PvE areas).

Now, if you use dmg spirits (highly effective in PvE, especially in end-game areas), then it's quite simple... you will need to practice spamming spirits, their positioning.. when to cast em, where etc. It's difficult to really explain this (read what Calen said; yes, spirit placement could almost be a science heh. Dont forget that placement depends on the spirits itself; shadowsong might be better far back, so it hits wariors, while dissonance might work better a bit up, so higher chance of hitting casters, etc). Basically, you go communing+channeling this time. Lil bit in spawning but meh not much since spawning is weak and useless, it doesnt help much unless you're using defensive spirits. Anyway, yes, you drop PBond here.

Spread spirits. Dont group spirits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo the Extinct

This is a really bad desicion, because Ritualists are barely ever used in gvg, and because Rt/E basically sucks in PvE when compared to the other professions. My point, is that you should just pick a secondary that excells at PvE, and not one that excells in PvP.

Misconceptions. More and more Rt's are in GvG now. I dont play in top100, but neither do 99% of GWers, and neither will OP play in top100 GvG, at least not for a long time. Outside of top100 GvG, Ritualists are very strong, and as you go down the ladder they become stronger and stronger. Just because most people copy builds, and because Rt's aint used much, doesnt mean they aint good. Im not the only one who used Rt's in GvG builds, hell, lots of em, and absolutely destroyed quite a lot of teams before they knew what hit them.

Ritualists are also overpowered in RA. I got 50 glad points first month of Factions, by playing dmg spirit spammer. I got bored of it, but whenever i go in RA and play something, i see tons of people still didnt learn how to fight against Rt. Which one can use to his advantage.

One other thing - mastering Rt is more difficult than mastering some other classes (namely, ele, whammo, necro...). This is because each set of Rt skills requires a different mindset. You cant put Channeled Strike and Spirit Rift and Gaze/Burn on your skillbar, and use it like you would use Channeled Strike, Gaze, Burn, Essence strike etc. If you take CStrike, Rift and Gaze/Burn, you HAVE to learn how to use these skills properly. Otherwise, by spamming them randomly, your dmg output will fall by 30% or more. I've seen other people using the build, and they have seen me using the same channeling build they tried, and the difference in dmg output and dead bodies was noticable.
It's the same situation with a set of other Rt skills.

Because of all that, the best thing you can do is find someone who is good at Rt, ask him lots of questions, and make him demonstrate it to you if possible. He will explain to you how each skill and set of skills are used. Im not doing that, because i noticed people are ungrateful, and they want to keep using their favorite Mo+E+W setup until chapter10, despite other options being better. Not that i care, less time teaching someone is more time to do smarter things.

Therefore, it is not suprising that Rt isnt as popular. Right now, after all the buffs, Ritualist is very strong. For those who know how to use it. It's not a sub-par class. It's a viable class.

Most guilds make GvG builds in a way: ...let's get monks, runner, ele, warrior... etc, and randomly mix em. Ritualist will not thrive is lottery builds. Ritualist will thrive in well-thought and designed builds, where every skill is there for a reason. No more, no less. Rt builds are not made in a way that many make other profession builds: "ah, use that elite, and just put some typical skills... u know...". They are made like this: "take that, that, that, that that that that and that skill".

unmatchedfury · Feb 07, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

I'd have to disagree wit hteh R/Rt thing the ranger doesnt really have acess to full channeling and commuing at the same time. BEtween the Rit lord nerf and this patch i might have agreed that they were equal, now the synergy between communing channeling is quite good.

and rits have gotten much more popular in GvG since this last patches buff. So if you make a PvP rit you can expect to get some use out of it.

JoeKnowMo · Feb 07, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Rits are great now thanks to the recent updates.

Check out threads on splinter weapon and barrage, for example. Restoration got a buff so healing potential is awesome. Given their versatility, you should be always able to get your rit into a pve group.

In pvp, Rits are making a comeback. They're becoming a presence in HA and GvG and with good reason.

Dr Strangelove · Feb 07, 2007, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Rits are a diverse choice, offering a lot more variety than attack skill spam or what have you. They may be a little bit on the complex side for a new player, however.

It's also worth noting that as much as I love Factions, very few people still remain there. If you're going to buy only one campaign, I'd go with prophecies or nightfall just so you have other humans to play with.

Rits can and do see play in top 100 GvG. Weapon of remedy spammers are quite nice in splits. A lot of the other stuff is somewhat less effective in high end PvP thanks to log cast times and relative immobility, which is a major liability in interrupt and teleway heavy GvG.

Servant of Kali · Feb 07, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by unmatchedfury

I'd have to disagree wit hteh R/Rt thing the ranger doesnt really have acess to full channeling and commuing at the same time. BEtween the Rit lord nerf and this patch i might have agreed that they were equal, now the synergy between communing channeling is quite good.

Im not talking about whammo-RA mentality one-man-against-the-world. Im talking about team builds.

Yes R/Rt is better than Rt primary when it comes to communing. Yes Rt's work in packs. Yes, person who uses solo Rt in a team build, is most likely using underpowered combo (unless it's Remedy+Vengeful spam). Yes that means Rt's synergize with other Rt's, exponentially.

And yes, if you're using communing+channeling, all by yourself, you're probably not using all communing spirits, at the expense of some channeling skills. Which means you're teambuild will be subpar to the teambuild of someone who runs R/Rt+Rt channeler combo. Yes, i'd really like to see you using Dissonance+Disenchantment+Anguish etc, and spamming that all the time on a Ritualist. A ranger does that with no problem.

Dodo The Extinct · Feb 07, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Misconceptions. More and more Rt's are in GvG now. I dont play in top100, but neither do 99% of GWers, and neither will OP play in top100 GvG, at least not for a long time. Outside of top100 GvG, Ritualists are very strong, and as you go down the ladder they become stronger and stronger. Just because most people copy builds, and because Rt's aint used much, doesnt mean they aint good. Im not the only one who used Rt's in GvG builds, hell, lots of em, and absolutely destroyed quite a lot of teams before they knew what hit them.

I never said Ritualists were not good, I said they were fairly uncommon in gvg, and they still are when compared to other professions.

But thanks to the skill changes, guilds starting to incorporate them.

Servant of Kali · Feb 08, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Well.. i only play those professions which are rare. That gives me an advantage, since i dont play in top100 GvG. Outside of top100 GvG (and especially other arenas), players know only the common popular skills. So, when i plant Spirit Rift under them, they have no idea what it is. The other advantage of playing a rare class is that others dont know how to counter you effectively. You gain the edge by suprising the opponent. Not being predictable is an advantage which many dont realize, but hey, not that i care, it makes me win more.

Smezmer · Feb 09, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Okay, this is coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't play pvp.
I have no real interest in it so I cant say much about it, but I do enjoy pve tremendously with my ritualist.
It is hard to get used to at first but given time, practice and effort you'll love it. The only thing you'll hate is that people will want you to be a restoration rit alot.
I'm a channeler damn it! lol. Nothing against restoration, hey I'm all for healing (preservation is one of my favorite spirits) but I prefer to deal damage rather than heal it. I like communing too, but now that bloodsong's been moved the only real reason I use it is for weapon of quickening or pain.
The only thing I didn't like about being a ritualist was starting out with so few skills and having to spend money and skill points buying alot of my spells. It's wastefull if you don't know what your looking for, and I spent alot of time and money trying to find skills that I like. So my suggestion would be that if your going to pick necromancer as your secondary proffesion got to Tyria asap and earn alot of your skills through quests rather than pay at the skill trainers. Also I caution against relying too heavily on builds. Your not really learning much about your proffesion if you emulate everything. Make mistakes and learn from your own experience. Research and learn from other about what works well with what but try to find your own style too.